From louigi600 at yahoo.it Fri Dec 7 11:36:35 2012 From: louigi600 at yahoo.it (Davide) Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2012 11:36:35 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [ARMedslack] Updating to 14.0 with kernel 2.6.38 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1354880195.44995.YahooMailNeo@web29705.mail.ird.yahoo.com> I'm thinking of updating to 14.0? on my AC100 (that unfortunately still runs on ubuntu based kernel ... that I learn is actually a fork of chromeos kernel) ... Will things like udev break un kernel 2.6.28 ? Anyone think of anything else I should watcout for ? Regards David -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thenktor at salixos.org Fri Dec 7 11:52:36 2012 From: thenktor at salixos.org (=?utf-8?Q?Thorsten_M=C3=BChlfelder?=) Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2012 12:52:36 +0100 Subject: [ARMedslack] Initrd fails to mount rootfs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > The fact that it worked with 13.37 doesn't really mean a lot, to be > honest. 13.37 had a different version of busybox, a different version of > udev, a different kernel; most likely containted a different set of > modules. Yes, of course. Just wanted to make sure that everything else is ok and I already had it running with 13.37 some time ago. So I gave it a test run. > When I had a similar problem myself, I unpacked the kirkwood's initrd and > put in the classic "print" statements into the init script to find out > where it was broken. I've built my own kernel now (same version like 14.0 and based on your config). I've just added the needed drivers to the kernel (USB, SCSI disk, some filesystems) so I can boot without initrd and everything is ok now. -- Thorsten M?hlfelder Salix OS: www.salixos.org From louigi600 at yahoo.it Fri Dec 7 14:09:35 2012 From: louigi600 at yahoo.it (Davide) Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2012 14:09:35 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [ARMedslack] Updating to 14.0 with kernel 2.6.38 In-Reply-To: <1354880195.44995.YahooMailNeo@web29705.mail.ird.yahoo.com> References: <1354880195.44995.YahooMailNeo@web29705.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1354889375.89572.YahooMailNeo@web29706.mail.ird.yahoo.com> The odd thing is that I actually was already 14.0 but from a previous current. Indeed I had a few problems with udev and gnutls. It also took forever to get a login prompt (and not sure if CTRL^D/C helped killing something that was not working). Udev stopped working properly and I hadto load manually usb networking interface. I'm sure I;ll have more trouble ahead for this. While doing slackpkg upgrade n gnutl came before wget and then wget stopped working ... this stopped slackpkg from downloading anything !!!! Thankgod scp still worked and I was able to get the new whet installed to go on with the upgrade process. As soon as I'm done with the upgrading I'll try posting the udev error messages and see if anyone can help me put it right. Regards David ________________________________ Da: Davide A: Slackware ARM port Inviato: Venerd? 7 Dicembre 2012 12:36 Oggetto: [ARMedslack] Updating to 14.0 with kernel 2.6.38 I'm thinking of updating to 14.0? on my AC100 (that unfortunately still runs on ubuntu based kernel ... that I learn is actually a fork of chromeos kernel) ... Will things like udev break un kernel 2.6.28 ? Anyone think of anything else I should watcout for ? Regards David _______________________________________________ ARMedslack mailing list ARMedslack at lists.armedslack.org http://lists.armedslack.org/mailman/listinfo/armedslack -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From louigi600 at yahoo.it Fri Dec 7 14:41:07 2012 From: louigi600 at yahoo.it (Davide) Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2012 14:41:07 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [ARMedslack] Updating to 14.0 with kernel 2.6.38 In-Reply-To: <1354889375.89572.YahooMailNeo@web29706.mail.ird.yahoo.com> References: <1354880195.44995.YahooMailNeo@web29705.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <1354889375.89572.YahooMailNeo@web29706.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1354891267.34568.YahooMailNeo@web29701.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Ok it appears that a new package is mandatory for udev to do it's work. Actually I think it's mandatory for modprobe which in turn is mandatory for udev. Manually installing kmod package put things right. If I'd listened to slackpkg man page better by doing first slackpkg install-new probably things would have worked better. Sorry for making a racket ... and hope this can save trouble to other people updating. David ________________________________ Da: Davide A: Slackware ARM port Inviato: Venerd? 7 Dicembre 2012 15:09 Oggetto: Re: [ARMedslack] Updating to 14.0 with kernel 2.6.38 The odd thing is that I actually was already 14.0 but from a previous current. Indeed I had a few problems with udev and gnutls. It also took forever to get a login prompt (and not sure if CTRL^D/C helped killing something that was not working). Udev stopped working properly and I hadto load manually usb networking interface. I'm sure I;ll have more trouble ahead for this. While doing slackpkg upgrade n gnutl came before wget and then wget stopped working ... this stopped slackpkg from downloading anything !!!! Thankgod scp still worked and I was able to get the new whet installed to go on with the upgrade process. As soon as I'm done with the upgrading I'll try posting the udev error messages and see if anyone can help me put it right. Regards David ________________________________ Da: Davide A: Slackware ARM port Inviato: Venerd? 7 Dicembre 2012 12:36 Oggetto: [ARMedslack] Updating to 14.0 with kernel 2.6.38 I'm thinking of updating to 14.0? on my AC100 (that unfortunately still runs on ubuntu based kernel ... that I learn is actually a fork of chromeos kernel) ... Will things like udev break un kernel 2.6.28 ? Anyone think of anything else I should watcout for ? Regards David _______________________________________________ ARMedslack mailing list ARMedslack at lists.armedslack.org http://lists.armedslack.org/mailman/listinfo/armedslack _______________________________________________ ARMedslack mailing list ARMedslack at lists.armedslack.org http://lists.armedslack.org/mailman/listinfo/armedslack -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thenktor at salixos.org Sat Dec 8 15:26:27 2012 From: thenktor at salixos.org (=?utf-8?Q?Thorsten_M=C3=BChlfelder?=) Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2012 16:26:27 +0100 Subject: [ARMedslack] =?utf-8?q?A_cheap_Pogoplug_on_sale_for_10_=E2=82=AC?= Message-ID: Hi, maybe interesting for some people here: A Pogoplug is on sale for 10 ? plus shipping: http://estore.rhiem.com/bestellen/warenkorb.asp?con=DE&artikelnr=POGO-P24&sid=2&wid=1&mid=32&store=&menge=0 It probably has a Oxnas 7820 chipset and it can run Linux from a disk connected to S-ATA: http://archlinuxarm.org/platforms/armv6/pogoplug-provideov3 http://archlinuxarm.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=2146 I've ordered one to install Slackware ARM ;-) Thorsten From slackware at langfinger.org Sun Dec 9 13:03:35 2012 From: slackware at langfinger.org (Michael Langfinger) Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2012 14:03:35 +0100 Subject: [ARMedslack] =?utf-8?q?A_cheap_Pogoplug_on_sale_for_10_=E2=82=AC?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <642150d321871f1b4ce9f3931a40f5a1-EhVcX1hHQARfWkQdAQYAWQoDGQlVS19cWF9EAVxEXEI3UlEWXV5/H1ZRQ1leLkQBWl9ZRVBXWQ0=-webmailer2@server04.webmailer.hosteurope.de> Hi Thorsten, thanks for the hint! 10 ? plus shipping is a really nice price for this device, i don't think that i can withstand... ;-) I will order one (or two?), too! Regards, Michael > Hi, > > maybe interesting for some people here: > A Pogoplug is on sale for 10 ? plus shipping: > > http://estore.rhiem.com/bestellen/warenkorb.asp?con=DE&artikelnr=POGO-P24&sid=2&wid=1&mid=32&store=&menge=0 > > It probably has a Oxnas 7820 chipset and it can run Linux from a disk > connected to S-ATA: > http://archlinuxarm.org/platforms/armv6/pogoplug-provideov3 > http://archlinuxarm.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=2146 > > I've ordered one to install Slackware ARM ;-) > > Thorsten > > _______________________________________________ > ARMedslack mailing list > ARMedslack at lists.armedslack.org > http://lists.armedslack.org/mailman/listinfo/armedslack From gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com Sun Dec 9 15:24:48 2012 From: gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com (Gregg Levine) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 10:24:48 -0500 Subject: [ARMedslack] =?windows-1252?q?A_cheap_Pogoplug_on_sale_for_10_=80?= In-Reply-To: <642150d321871f1b4ce9f3931a40f5a1-EhVcX1hHQARfWkQdAQYAWQoDGQlVS19cWF9EAVxEXEI3UlEWXV5/H1ZRQ1leLkQBWl9ZRVBXWQ0=-webmailer2@server04.webmailer.hosteurope.de> References: <642150d321871f1b4ce9f3931a40f5a1-EhVcX1hHQARfWkQdAQYAWQoDGQlVS19cWF9EAVxEXEI3UlEWXV5/H1ZRQ1leLkQBWl9ZRVBXWQ0=-webmailer2@server04.webmailer.hosteurope.de> Message-ID: On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 8:03 AM, Michael Langfinger wrote: > Hi Thorsten, > > thanks for the hint! 10 ? plus shipping is a really nice price for this > device, i don't think that i can withstand... ;-) > > I will order one (or two?), too! > > Regards, > Michael > > > >> Hi, >> >> maybe interesting for some people here: >> A Pogoplug is on sale for 10 ? plus shipping: >> >> >> http://estore.rhiem.com/bestellen/warenkorb.asp?con=DE&artikelnr=POGO-P24&sid=2&wid=1&mid=32&store=&menge=0 >> >> It probably has a Oxnas 7820 chipset and it can run Linux from a disk >> connected to S-ATA: >> http://archlinuxarm.org/platforms/armv6/pogoplug-provideov3 >> http://archlinuxarm.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=2146 >> >> I've ordered one to install Slackware ARM ;-) >> >> Thorsten Hello! Yes but that's the store in Europe. That is the firm's site somewhere in Europe. Here they are largely promoting the V4 design. And their sales e-mail alias is broken. Google Mail thinks its a Google Groups alias...... Naturally complaining to it fell on deaf ears. And finding an easy way to do so is rather difficult. It turns out that there are one or two shops here still selling them but not enough. ----- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again." From m-lists at biscuit.org.uk Sun Dec 9 18:16:21 2012 From: m-lists at biscuit.org.uk (Stuart Winter) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 18:16:21 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [ARMedslack] Initrd fails to mount rootfs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > When I had a similar problem myself, I unpacked the kirkwood's initrd and > > put in the classic "print" statements into the init script to find out > > where it was broken. > > I've built my own kernel now (same version like 14.0 and based on your > config). I've just added the needed drivers to the kernel (USB, SCSI > disk, some filesystems) so I can boot without initrd and everything is > ok now. Which modules did you add? From m-lists at biscuit.org.uk Sun Dec 9 19:53:14 2012 From: m-lists at biscuit.org.uk (Stuart Winter) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 19:53:14 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [ARMedslack] Initrd fails to mount rootfs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: So your issue is your u-boot parameters: http://pastebin.com/XLyCFiGV [ 0.000000] Kernel command line: console=ttyS0,115200 root=/dev/sda3 rootdelay=10 rootfstype=ext4 mtdparts=orion_nand:1M(u-boot),4M(uImage),32M(rootfs),-(data) It should be 'rootfs=' not 'rootfstype='. Also Slackware's initrd uses 'waitforroot=' not 'rootdelay='. Fix those and the kernel should work fine. These haven't changed since 13.37 but I suspect 'mount' may be more picky than previously. From m-lists at biscuit.org.uk Mon Dec 10 10:31:13 2012 From: m-lists at biscuit.org.uk (Stuart Winter) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 10:31:13 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [ARMedslack] Initrd fails to mount rootfs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > But wouldn't it be a better solution to use the standard kernel parameters for the uinitrd, too? > > from Documentation/kernel-parameters.txt: > rootdelay= [KNL] Delay (in seconds) to pause before attempting to > mount the root filesystem > > rootfstype= [KNL] Set root filesystem type > > rootwait [KNL] Wait (indefinitely) for root device to show up. > Useful for devices that are detected asynchronously > (e.g. USB and MMC devices). Yes it would. I'll patch the init script to accept both parameters. -- Stuart Winter Slackware ARM: www.armedslack.org From thenktor at salixos.org Sat Dec 15 16:55:31 2012 From: thenktor at salixos.org (=?utf-8?Q?Thorsten_M=C3=BChlfelder?=) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2012 17:55:31 +0100 Subject: [ARMedslack] =?utf-8?q?A_cheap_Pogoplug_on_sale_for_10_=E2=82=AC?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > It probably has a Oxnas 7820 chipset and it can run Linux from a disk connected to S-ATA: > http://archlinuxarm.org/platforms/armv6/pogoplug-provideov3 > http://archlinuxarm.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=2146 > > I've ordered one to install Slackware ARM ;-) I've received mine. Sadly I got a POGO-E02 with Marvell chipset (kirkwood). This actually is the same hardware like my Seagate Dockstar (or other Sheevaplugs), so I'd sell mine for 16 ? + plus shipping from Germany. -- Thorsten M?hlfelder Salix OS: www.salixos.org From m-lists at biscuit.org.uk Sun Dec 16 23:50:04 2012 From: m-lists at biscuit.org.uk (Stuart Winter) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 23:50:04 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [ARMedslack] Using a bootdisk to install armedslack on TrimSlice In-Reply-To: <5087E6DC.1090704@zonnet.nl> References: <5087E6DC.1090704@zonnet.nl> Message-ID: > NOTE: during the process, I upgraded the firmware to the latest 2012 version. > Big mistake; that version only works with the 3.5 kernel, so I couldn't boot. > The 2010 firmware version works fine. I've been experiementing with the new firmware and it's not been fruitful, where did you get the 2010 firmware from? -- Stuart Winter Slackware ARM: www.armedslack.org From fdonkers at zonnet.nl Mon Dec 17 11:53:41 2012 From: fdonkers at zonnet.nl (Frank Donkers) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 12:53:41 +0100 Subject: [ARMedslack] Using a bootdisk to install armedslack on TrimSlice In-Reply-To: References: <5087E6DC.1090704@zonnet.nl> Message-ID: <50CF07C5.3030408@zonnet.nl> On 17-12-12 00:50, Stuart Winter wrote: > > > >> NOTE: during the process, I upgraded the firmware to the latest 2012 version. >> Big mistake; that version only works with the 3.5 kernel, so I couldn't boot. >> The 2010 firmware version works fine. > > I've been experiementing with the new firmware and it's not been fruitful, > where did you get the 2010 firmware from? > > From the trimslice wiki : http://www.trimslice.com/wiki/index.php/Trim-Slice_Firmware_Updater From stanley at stanleygarvey.com Sun Dec 23 23:06:39 2012 From: stanley at stanleygarvey.com (stanley garvey) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2012 23:06:39 +0000 Subject: [ARMedslack] Upset regarding raspberry pi - unsuported.-Opinion Message-ID: <20121223230640.AA00A6D1212B0@bmail-n01.one.com> Hi, Christmas is upon us and I am rather upset, a year ago the Raspberry pi was a rare beast, it touted linux at a low cost OS. It was for children, it could be used on old telly's and new things likes monitors or HD TVs, what could be wrong? Huh! I could have got the kids android pads, but I was worried about the walled gardens and app store culture. So what do the Raspberry Pi Foundation go and do? they create a raspberry pi store with Debian (Raspiean app store or what ever). enough already, I want my children to lean how to programme, not how to download the latest app. Merry Christmas -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From m-lists at biscuit.org.uk Tue Dec 25 17:09:26 2012 From: m-lists at biscuit.org.uk (Stuart Winter) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 17:09:26 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [ARMedslack] Upset regarding raspberry pi - unsuported.-Opinion In-Reply-To: <20121223230640.AA00A6D1212B0@bmail-n01.one.com> References: <20121223230640.AA00A6D1212B0@bmail-n01.one.com> Message-ID: > was worried about the walled gardens and app store culture. So what do > the Raspberry Pi Foundation go and do? they create a raspberry pi store > with Debian (Raspiean app store or what ever). enough already, I want my > children to lean how to programme, not how to download the latest app. I don't see any issue, myself. What's stopping them from doing # apt-get install python or whatever programming language of their choice? Some of the people involved with the development of the RPi developed for the BBC Micros which is where I got started. From what I've read, they want to try and provide a system on which youngsters can develop software, scripts and so on. On the BBC, we had direct access to BBC BASIC and 6502 Assembler. People made some great software in BBC BASIC, and it's where I learnt started learning about programming and computers. -- Stuart Winter Slackware ARM: www.armedslack.org From m-lists at biscuit.org.uk Tue Dec 25 17:19:33 2012 From: m-lists at biscuit.org.uk (Stuart Winter) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 17:19:33 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [ARMedslack] Upset regarding raspberry pi - unsuported.-Opinion In-Reply-To: References: <20121223230640.AA00A6D1212B0@bmail-n01.one.com> Message-ID: > > the Raspberry Pi Foundation go and do? they create a raspberry pi store > > with Debian (Raspiean app store or what ever). enough already, I want my > > children to lean how to programme, not how to download the latest app. > > I don't see any issue, myself. [..] Also, it just occurred to me that an App Store isn't much different from a big 5.25" floppy disk containing loads of BASIC programs you could load in and run. The concepts are the same, just the name and the format changes. -- Stuart Winter Slackware ARM: www.armedslack.org From louigi600 at yahoo.it Tue Dec 25 18:49:17 2012 From: louigi600 at yahoo.it (Davide) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 18:49:17 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [ARMedslack] Merry Christmas In-Reply-To: References: <20121223230640.AA00A6D1212B0@bmail-n01.one.com> Message-ID: <1356461357.26115.YahooMailNeo@web28805.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Merry Christmas and happy new year to everybody. David -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stanley at stanleygarvey.com Wed Dec 26 23:21:24 2012 From: stanley at stanleygarvey.com (stanley garvey) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2012 23:21:24 +0000 Subject: [ARMedslack] Upset regarding raspberry pi - unsuported.-Opinion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20121226232124.C1A4D169F8786@bmail06.one.com> On Dec 25, 2012 17:19 "Stuart Winter" wrote: > > > the Raspberry Pi Foundation go and do? they create a raspberry pi > > > store > > > with Debian (Raspiean app store or what ever). enough already, I > > > want my > > > children to lean how to programme, not how to download the latest > > > app. > > > > I don't see any issue, myself. > [..] > > Also, it just occurred to me that an App Store isn't much different > from a > big 5.25" floppy disk containing loads of BASIC programs you could > load in > and run. > The concepts are the same, just the name and the format changes. > > Guess I was just trolling, I was having a lack of faith, I was not > sure how a 9/10 year old would take to running Slackware. I wanted the > children to use Slackware because I use Slackware, but time was > running short. and I did not think I had it right for a 9/10 year old > child, so I thought 'hey why not just load the Rpi debian image?', > checking the website I wrongly assumed they had gone commercial. This > was further fueled by the conversation I had with my partner > concerning lock ins and proprietary software ( iPods/kindles/android > devices). My nephew is delighted with his RC helicopter, and the Boy > wants only his XBox, the girl, however can't wait to write stories on > the new computer . Now I have to teach her Vi. > Happy Christmas and a fantastic new year. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com Wed Dec 26 23:45:45 2012 From: gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com (Gregg Levine) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2012 18:45:45 -0500 Subject: [ARMedslack] Upset regarding raspberry pi - unsuported.-Opinion In-Reply-To: <20121226232124.C1A4D169F8786@bmail06.one.com> References: <20121226232124.C1A4D169F8786@bmail06.one.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 6:21 PM, stanley garvey wrote: > On Dec 25, 2012 17:19 "Stuart Winter" wrote: > > the Raspberry Pi Foundation go and do? they create a raspberry pi store > with Debian (Raspiean app store or what ever). enough already, I want my > children to lean how to programme, not how to download the latest app. > > > I don't see any issue, myself. > > [..] > > Also, it just occurred to me that an App Store isn't much different from a > big 5.25" floppy disk containing loads of BASIC programs you could load in > and run. > The concepts are the same, just the name and the format changes. > > Guess I was just trolling, I was having a lack of faith, I was not sure how > a 9/10 year old would take to running Slackware. I wanted the children to > use Slackware because I use Slackware, but time was running short. and I did > not think I had it right for a 9/10 year old child, so I thought 'hey why > not just load the Rpi debian image?', checking the website I wrongly assumed > they had gone commercial. This was further fueled by the conversation I had > with my partner concerning lock ins and proprietary software ( > iPods/kindles/android devices). My nephew is delighted with his RC > helicopter, and the Boy wants only his XBox, the girl, however can't wait to > write stories on the new computer . Now I have to teach her Vi. > Happy Christmas and a fantastic new year. > > Hello! In the Linux world anything is possible. I just finished about an hour ago using the rsynch command to retrieve the Raspberry PI stuff from your site Stanley (Garvey) and found it to be an interesting process. Incidentally the website mentions that the FTP site will accept anonymous requests, it didn't. Which I was surprised over but not annoyed at. I came to your site via the notes on the location that you Stuart mention on the site http://www.armedslack.org/ on the portion that discusses the device http://www.daves-collective.co.uk/raspi/ that's on the release of 14.0 area. I have one coming to me via the gift process (I hope) and naturally will want to run Slackware there after I've gotten it to work with the other guy. My only problem is that of cross compiling a kernel, especially since the host is running 13.37 and I'll probably be running 14.0 on the R.PI device (target). I suspect I'll need to work on how to upgrade the system and preserve my content....... Other then that gentlemen thank you and I wish you a good holiday season. ----- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again." From pirkster at gmail.com Thu Dec 27 07:45:58 2012 From: pirkster at gmail.com (Steve Pirk) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2012 23:45:58 -0800 Subject: [ARMedslack] Upset regarding raspberry pi - unsuported.-Opinion In-Reply-To: <20121226232124.C1A4D169F8786@bmail06.one.com> References: <20121226232124.C1A4D169F8786@bmail06.one.com> Message-ID: If you are looking for a more source code based system than the canned stuff Canonical puts out, take a look at Arch Linux. I put Slack, Arch and Gentoo into the same category, and love Slackware because the install from scratch is easy and works so well. It looks like there is a Archlinux Arm build out for the Pi, so you could maybe be the guinea pig on testing it out for us :) http://archlinuxarm.org/platforms/armv6/raspberry-pi -- steve On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 3:21 PM, stanley garvey wrote: > On Dec 25, 2012 17:19 "Stuart Winter" wrote: > > the Raspberry Pi Foundation go and do? they create a raspberry pi store > with Debian (Raspiean app store or what ever). enough already, I want my > children to lean how to programme, not how to download the latest app. > > > I don't see any issue, myself. > > [..] > > Also, it just occurred to me that an App Store isn't much different from a > big 5.25" floppy disk containing loads of BASIC programs you could load in > and run. > The concepts are the same, just the name and the format changes. > > Guess I was just trolling, I was having a lack of faith, I was not sure > how a 9/10 year old would take to running Slackware. I wanted the children > to use Slackware because I use Slackware, but time was running short. and I > did not think I had it right for a 9/10 year old child, so I thought 'hey > why not just load the Rpi debian image?', checking the website I wrongly > assumed they had gone commercial. This was further fueled by the > conversation I had with my partner concerning lock ins and proprietary > software ( iPods/kindles/android devices). My nephew is delighted with his > RC helicopter, and the Boy wants only his XBox, the girl, however can't > wait to write stories on the new computer . Now I have to teach her Vi. > Happy Christmas and a fantastic new year. > > > _______________________________________________ > ARMedslack mailing list > ARMedslack at lists.armedslack.org > http://lists.armedslack.org/mailman/listinfo/armedslack > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From m-lists at biscuit.org.uk Thu Dec 27 09:49:18 2012 From: m-lists at biscuit.org.uk (Stuart Winter) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2012 09:49:18 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [ARMedslack] Upset regarding raspberry pi - unsuported.-Opinion In-Reply-To: <20121226232124.C1A4D169F8786@bmail06.one.com> References: <20121226232124.C1A4D169F8786@bmail06.one.com> Message-ID: > > sure how a 9/10 year old would take to running Slackware. I wanted the > > children to use Slackware because I use Slackware, but time was > > running short. and I did not think I had it right for a 9/10 year old > > child, so I thought 'hey why not just load the Rpi debian image?', > > checking the website I wrongly assumed they had gone commercial. This > > was further fueled by the conversation I had with my partner > > concerning lock ins and proprietary software ( iPods/kindles/android > > devices). The thing is that, based on my own experience alone, if the child has -for any reason- an interest in the device, they'll want to try and understand it and get inside it. My first machine was an Atari 520STFM which is not open source or open anything. In fact, the reason I became interested in computers was due to the pirated software games disks. The disks often included many other interesting tools such as 'packers' (on-the-fly decompressors so that the pirates could fit >1 game on a disk), and dissassemblers and so on. I found the included tools more interesting than the games so spent more time with those! As long as there are tools to create (development languages), and examples (open source software, or in the case of the BBC and RISC OS, most software was written in BASIC anyway (since it's probably the fastest BASIC in the world, without compiling) so you could just open it in an editor and start tinkering with small things to begin with) to learn from, children -- anybody -- can learn if they have a desire and tenacity. >>My nephew is delighted with his RC helicopter, and the Boy > > wants only his XBox, the girl, however can't wait to write stories on > > the new computer . Now I have to teach her Vi. My nephews want to play on their X-Box and I think it's a total waste of life. At least when I played on my computers, I was learning not just useful concepts (I found myself looking at some old BBC BASIC programs the other day as I remembered one in particular had a routine that I could potentially use in something I was working on), but also learning programming and (without knowing it at the time) troubleshooting. If kids just sit infront of games consoles, they're not really learning much useful unless they're into lucid dreaming where they can act the stuff out again, as far as I can tell. Vi? heh. I wish '!Zap' could be ported to Linux. http://zap.tartarus.org/screenshots It was the best editor in the entire solar system. -- Stuart Winter Slackware ARM: www.armedslack.org From m-lists at biscuit.org.uk Thu Dec 27 10:12:34 2012 From: m-lists at biscuit.org.uk (Stuart Winter) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2012 10:12:34 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [ARMedslack] Upset regarding raspberry pi - unsuported.-Opinion In-Reply-To: References: <20121226232124.C1A4D169F8786@bmail06.one.com> Message-ID: > In the Linux world anything is possible. I just finished about an hour > ago using the rsynch command to retrieve the Raspberry PI stuff from > your site Stanley (Garvey) and found it to be an interesting process. > Incidentally the website mentions that the FTP site will accept > anonymous requests, it didn't. I couldn't determine whether you were talking about the Slackware ARM web site or Stanley's. All of the FTP sites listed here permit anonymous access. http://www.armedslack.org/getslack/ There's a link on David's web site which references the old name 'armedslack' which has been removed a while ago - but you get a 'No such file or directory' error which indicates successful anonymous login, but a failure to find the directory. Is that what you were seeing? I've added Stanley and FatDog.eu's URLs to the INSTALL_RASPBERRYPI.TXT document for -current and 14.0 as they're also both great resources. > My only problem is that of cross compiling a kernel, especially since > the host is running 13.37 and I'll probably be running 14.0 on the > R.PI device (target). I suspect I'll need to work on how to upgrade > the system and preserve my content....... It doesn't matter what version of gcc you build the kernel with really, as long as it's reasonably recent. You'd need a cross compiler anyway, which is independent from the host toolchain. Unless you want to modify something in the kernel, it's far easier to use one of the pre-compiled kernels. -- Stuart Winter Slackware ARM: www.armedslack.org From stanley at stanleygarvey.com Thu Dec 27 10:38:29 2012 From: stanley at stanleygarvey.com (stanley garvey) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2012 10:38:29 +0000 Subject: [ARMedslack] Upset regarding raspberry pi - unsuported.-Opinion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20121227103853.3BE3BE2221704@bmail03.one.com> On Dec 27, 2012 10:12 "Stuart Winter" wrote: > > In the Linux world anything is possible. I just finished about an > > hour > > ago using the rsynch command to retrieve the Raspberry PI stuff from > > your site Stanley (Garvey) and found it to be an interesting > > process. > > Incidentally the website mentions that the FTP site will accept > > anonymous requests, it didn't. > > I couldn't determine whether you were talking about the Slackware ARM > web > site or Stanley's. > All of the FTP sites listed here permit anonymous access. > > There's a link on David's web site which references the old name > 'armedslack' which has been removed a while ago - but you get a 'No > such > file or directory' error which indicates successful anonymous login, > but a > failure to find the directory. Is that what you were seeing? > > I've added Stanley and FatDog.eu's URLs to the INSTALL_RASPBERRYPI.TXT > document for -current and 14.0 as they're also both great resources. > > > My only problem is that of cross compiling a kernel, especially > > since > > the host is running 13.37 and I'll probably be running 14.0 on the > > R.PI device (target). I suspect I'll need to work on how to upgrade > > the system and preserve my content....... > > It doesn't matter what version of gcc you build the kernel with > really, as > long as it's reasonably recent. You'd need a cross compiler anyway, > which is independent from the host toolchain. > > Unless you want to modify something in the kernel, it's far easier to > use > one of the pre-compiled kernels. > > Hi Gregg, Hi Stuart, > It's my site that does not do ftp, it's on my DMZ and I need to open > some ports, but I have not had the time. rsync works nicely. > I have used the RPI tools cross-complier but had unusual results > (kernel panics) and I compile on the pi if I need to. you can update > your kernel and the firmware with Hexxehs rpi-updater, it for debian > but works with slackware. > it does tend to crash on first run while performing self update. > Delete the hidden directory .rpi-firmware from the directory you ran > it from ie 'rm -r .rpi-firmware' and try again. > get it via: > rsync > stanleygarvey.co.uk::SlackBerry/packages/rpi-update-2012.07.05-noarch- > 1_sag.tgz . > > installpkg rpi-update-2012.07.05-noarch-1_sag.tgz > > as root : > rpi-update > > Kind regards > Stanley. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From m-lists at biscuit.org.uk Thu Dec 27 10:50:20 2012 From: m-lists at biscuit.org.uk (Stuart Winter) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2012 10:50:20 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [ARMedslack] Upset regarding raspberry pi - unsuported.-Opinion In-Reply-To: <20121227103853.3BE3BE2221704@bmail03.one.com> References: <20121227103853.3BE3BE2221704@bmail03.one.com> Message-ID: > > It's my site that does not do ftp, it's on my DMZ and I need to open > > some ports, but I have not had the time. rsync works nicely. [..] You could ask Darren Austin for rsync upload access to ftp.slackware.org.uk Your dir will then be available via FTP, as is Slackware ARM's. You can find his email address here: http://www.slackware.org.uk/ -- Stuart Winter Slackware ARM: www.armedslack.org From stanley at stanleygarvey.com Thu Dec 27 11:08:58 2012 From: stanley at stanleygarvey.com (stanley garvey) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2012 11:08:58 +0000 Subject: [ARMedslack] Upset regarding raspberry pi - unsuported.-Opinion In-Reply-To: References: <20121227103853.3BE3BE2221704@bmail03.one.com> Message-ID: <20121227110900.B77A263759416@bmail04.one.com> On Dec 27, 2012 10:50 "Stuart Winter" wrote: > > > It's my site that does not do ftp, it's on my DMZ and I need to > > > open > > > some ports, but I have not had the time. rsync works nicely. > [..] > > You could ask Darren Austin for rsync upload access to > ftp.slackware.org.uk > Your dir will then be available via FTP, as is Slackware ARM's. > > You can find his email address here: > > Cool, there is not much there at the moment, but as I get time I wish > to compile some rpi specific stuff like omxplayer slack build and > such. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From frmrick at aapt.net.au Thu Dec 27 19:23:20 2012 From: frmrick at aapt.net.au (rick) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2012 06:23:20 +1100 Subject: [ARMedslack] Upset regarding raspberry pi - unsuported.-Opinion In-Reply-To: References: <20121226232124.C1A4D169F8786@bmail06.one.com> Message-ID: <50DCA028.4050304@aapt.net.au> On 27/12/12 18:45, Steve Pirk wrote: > Archlinux Arm build out for the Pi, so you could maybe be the guinea > pig on testing it out for us :) That was my 2nd install on my first pi in May (the first was debian). I had no problems at all with the install using a concise well written howto from the web. As with the debian install I just didn't like the feel of it after having used slackware for 11 years. Only other distros I use are salix and porteus, filesystem, configs, packaging, etc. are all the same and something I am comfortable using. From frmrick at aapt.net.au Thu Dec 27 20:57:41 2012 From: frmrick at aapt.net.au (rick) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2012 07:57:41 +1100 Subject: [ARMedslack] Upset regarding raspberry pi - unsuported.-Opinion In-Reply-To: References: <20121226232124.C1A4D169F8786@bmail06.one.com> Message-ID: <50DCB645.7020706@aapt.net.au> On 27/12/12 20:49, Stuart Winter wrote: >>> sure how a 9/10 year old would take to running Slackware. I wanted the >>> children to use Slackware because I use Slackware, but time was >>> running short. and I did not think I had it right for a 9/10 year old >>> child, so I thought 'hey why not just load the Rpi debian image?', >>> checking the website I wrongly assumed they had gone commercial. This >>> was further fueled by the conversation I had with my partner >>> concerning lock ins and proprietary software ( iPods/kindles/android >>> devices). > The thing is that, based on my own experience alone, if the child has -for > any reason- an interest in the device, they'll want to try and understand > it and get inside it. My first machine was an Atari 520STFM which is not > open source or open anything. In fact, the reason I became interested in > computers was due to the pirated software games disks. The disks often included many other > interesting tools such as 'packers' (on-the-fly decompressors so that the > pirates could fit >1 game on a disk), and dissassemblers and so on. I > found the included tools more interesting than the games so spent more > time with those! As long as there are tools to create (development > languages), and examples (open source software, or in the case of the BBC > and RISC OS, most software was written in BASIC anyway (since it's > probably the fastest BASIC in the world, without compiling) so you could > just open it in an editor and start tinkering with small things to begin > with) to learn from, children -- anybody -- can learn if they have a desire and > tenacity. > >>> My nephew is delighted with his RC helicopter, and the Boy >>> wants only his XBox, the girl, however can't wait to write stories on >>> the new computer . Now I have to teach her Vi. > My nephews want to play on their X-Box and I think it's a total waste of > life. At least when I played on my computers, I was learning not just > useful concepts (I found myself looking at some old BBC BASIC programs the > other day as I remembered one in particular had a routine that I could > potentially use in something I was working on), but also learning > programming and (without knowing it at the time) troubleshooting. If kids > just sit infront of games consoles, they're not really learning much > useful unless they're into lucid dreaming where they can act the stuff > out again, as far as I can tell. > > Vi? heh. I wish '!Zap' could be ported to Linux. > http://zap.tartarus.org/screenshots > It was the best editor in the entire solar system. > This thread has gotten me thinking to when I grew up. I'm thinking that perhaps something like the pi needs programs geared towards young kids so that they can visually see a situation they can relate to and then be given a very "basic" programming tool set so they can "resolve that situation" and do it using something other than a stylish plastic box with a touchscreen or gaming controls attached. I grew up near NYC in the 50'-60's and vaguely remember a kids TV show called Gumby where we could get a plastic sheet to place over the TV screen and "magic" crayon and interact with Gumby. For instance, Gumby comes to a stream and needs a bridge, "Hey kids draw a bridge over the stream..." (maybe connect the dots) ..."and help gumby across the stream." I don't remember much more and my older sister always had the crayon but in general there was allot more DIY stuff around for children instead of amuse yourself stuff. We learned at an early age we could do things ourselves and it could be enjoyable and rewarding. Children have to start early. To use an analogy, a cousin of mine works with kids with poor disadvantage urban backgrounds. She insists that if you don't get them to see, desire and realise they can achieve an alternative early ( pre 12-13 yo) they are very likely to gravitate towards the street corner dudes and dudettes with the flashy clothes, shiny cars, rings on their fingers and no visible means of support. I'm inclined to think that in these days of instant electronic gratification via touchscreen and 3d games that most teens will not be interested in programming anything unless they also have 1) early successful (pre-teen) experience(s) of a do it yourself nature, 2) a current interest or inclination based something else, e.g. robotics and 3) an understanding that they can actually do, i.e. program, something themselves that influences the outcome. The pi may be great fun for some teens and some adults and I even know of a steel rolling mill which has been considering them for monitoring plant environment and processes. However, I think young folk who have yet to grow up need some interactive software where they can see some sort of "gumby" wanting/needing to do something and then have some simple way available to program a solution. They can learn how to install/maintain a system or master vi when they are older if they are so inclined but make things fun and easy for them now in the beginning